tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309718.post6260140254272958274..comments2023-10-30T04:35:26.999-06:00Comments on Every Thought Captive: Oops! My Bad!Phil Steigerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14948892557259431751noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309718.post-78295519148820484012007-11-09T16:19:00.000-07:002007-11-09T16:19:00.000-07:00I really resonate with David Fitch and his book Th...I really resonate with David Fitch and his book The Great Giveaway. He recommends that the church not count souls saved, but sould baptized. Not just saved and then dunked the next day mind you, but new believers who go through a new believers course and then get baptized some months later after completion. I think it would help sober up the church on how many are being saved...and how many are jcubsdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08441530898226119655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309718.post-11486401947524850552007-11-09T15:50:00.000-07:002007-11-09T15:50:00.000-07:00J-Thanks again, and I agree that there is some ret...J-<BR/><BR/>Thanks again, and I agree that there is some rethinking to be done as far as the activites of Church in our communities is concerned. And I am glad you mentioned what you did about the kind of "shock" you are reading about on other sites. I certainly don't feel like we have a serious problem now as a result of their study, so I think the best thing for me to do is expand on what I Phil Steigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14948892557259431751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309718.post-34127887904764895812007-11-09T10:17:00.000-07:002007-11-09T10:17:00.000-07:00It's very hard to do two things well, and I think ...It's very hard to do two things well, and I think that's sort of where the beginning of the troubles is. WC and other churches found some very good ways to bring today's US culture together with Christ. Because the majority of people in the US don't have even a tenuous link to a church, the older method of bringing people and Christ together - preaching from the pulpit - stopped reaching people.<Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16837647516475473182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309718.post-28504077952118066602007-11-09T09:31:00.000-07:002007-11-09T09:31:00.000-07:00J-I don't want to sound too judgmental of Willow C...J-<BR/><BR/>I don't want to sound too judgmental of Willow Creek specifically, but I do believe their model has been counter-productive for years. And when I use the term "shock," I think it does apply very well to their own reaction to the results.<BR/><BR/>The drum I have been beating for a long time now is that discipleship is a very different thing than programs and marketing. I am glad Phil Steigerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14948892557259431751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309718.post-72405003482912814262007-11-09T08:02:00.000-07:002007-11-09T08:02:00.000-07:00I've not seen any "shock" in the evangelical commu...I've not seen any "shock" in the evangelical community, at least of the type you're talking about.<BR/><BR/>What I have seen is almost every magazine and blog out there <B>claim</B> this is a shock to the evangelical community, but not to them. I have yet to see a single post, magazine article, speaker say "Wow, what an out-of-the-blue surprise!!" (even WC didn't have that reaction)<BR/><BR/>I'veJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16837647516475473182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7309718.post-74966946372008816832007-11-09T07:34:00.000-07:002007-11-09T07:34:00.000-07:00Whenever our focus is strictly on "saving souls" w...Whenever our focus is strictly on "saving souls" we run the danger of racking up the numbers of souls "saved" vs. actually making disciples. Worse yet, we run the risk of convincing people that they are Christian when, in fact, they may not even understand what it means to be a Christian.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04649535070603621577noreply@blogger.com